Is 'Pommy Bastard' racist?

Bishop of Bath & Wells · 27-03-06 18:48:37

Interesting article which I stumbled across whilst on Cricinfo the other night. Personally I don't find this term even remotely offensive, quite the opposite in fact, I've always tended to regard it as an intentionally crude show of affection.

Any thoughts?

Article:

Reporter : Trevor Marshallsea
March 23, 2006

IT SOUNDS like a line from an old Monty Python sketch, but a question doing the rounds yesterday was: Will it be OK to call English players "Pommy bastards" during the Ashes series here next summer? It seems the answer depends on who you ask, or perhaps on when you ask it.

Racist crowd behaviour has been the hot topic of cricket, after South African players complained of being called kaffirs - a highly derogatory term for black South Africans - and kaffir boeties (brother of blacks).

Cricket Australia's chief executive, James Sutherland, arrived home yesterday from Dubai, where an International Cricket Council board meeting heard a damning report on racial abuse directed at South African players by Australian crowds this summer.

As Mr Sutherland fielded questions, he was asked whether spectators might be ejected from grounds for shouting "Pommy bastard" at an English player.

"I would have thought so, yeah. I would have thought if it is regarded as a racist comment, then yes," said Mr Sutherland, later adding: "We need to be very sensitive to it."

Perhaps, in retrospect, he felt he was being too sensitive, for when contacted later, Cricket Australia backpedalled.

"The point we're trying to make is the kind of abuse that was used against South African players was genuinely offensive and won't be tolerated," said Cricket Australia's spokesman, Peter Young. "To even talk about 'Pommy bastard' in the same breath trivialises the issue."

Cricket Australia was still keen to stress that hurtfulness was in the ear of the beholder, as one piece of Ashes folklore illustrates.

During the controversial Bodyline series of 1932-33, the English captain Douglas Jardine was said to have visited the Australian dressing room to complain bitterly to his counterpart Bill Woodfull that an Australian player had called him a bastard.

Woodfull turned to his team and said: "Which one of you bastards called this bastard a bastard?"

Bish

cynicism · 27-03-06 23:29:03

Reminds me of the classic shearer's interchange:

"Who called the cook a bastard?"
"Who called the bastard a cook?"

which suggests: "who called the pommy bastards cricket players?"

I think it really does come down to intonation. Let's say we invent a new word, say "worret". If you say, in the right tone of voice: "You worret!", you'll find people will take offence, even if they've never heard the word before. On the other hand, if you use a completely different tone, and say "You worret" lovingly, you'll get a completely different reaction. Witness how easily people understood the use of "smeg" in Red Dwarf.

It's not hard to tell when you hear it. It gets harder in court: "Your honour, the accused called his friend a filthy bastard"...

Elfman · 28-03-06 00:07:58

cynicism wrote:

.......whichsuggests: "who called the pommy bastards cricket players?"

We pomms did when we won the Ashes last year. Seriously I dont think that any of us mind being called Pommy bastards. To most Australians I have known "bastard" was synonymous with "mate" and the term "pommy" never intended to give offence. When I was younger a Scotsman, Irishman or Welshman might be addressed as Jock, Mick or Taff with no offence taken or intended. (I am a "Tyke", that is a Yorkshireman, and am quite happy to be called one).

Of course I understand and support the South African's objection to Kaffirs. That term is derogatory and insulting and there is no place in sport for that kind of racism. Given the long and mostly friendly rivalry which has existed between England and Australia on the cricket field however, and the fact that badinage plays such a big part in the humour of both our nations, Pommy bastard is quite acceptable. (Indeed I think that most Englishmen would be embarrassed if the Aussies were forced to drop it).

Elfman.

bluegrey · 28-03-06 00:16:42

Being someone who does call their friends 'bastards', I can see where the uncertainty is. Although I tend to believe it's usually better to err on the side of niceness, regardless of whether people think you're being too PC. I imagine the uncertainty of being temporarially in a new country- how can you know whether or not you're being insulted?

I know my rather Irish family would go berserko if someone called them 'Micks', so I guess it's all in the usage. Maybe the words are in progression as dropping away from being insults towards descriptors, and it depends on who you talk to as to how they'll perceive it. I've known italian guys who called themselves 'wogs', but once more that can be a pretty rude insult if you don't know what you're doing.

Since I never know what I'm doing...

exhausted · 03-04-06 23:16:20

As cynicism said, it comes down to intonation. When I served with the Royal Navy in Australia, we were known as 'whinging pommie bastards', but as it was said nicely, we didn't mind. Sometimes though we would get out our ball and chain, kept for special occaisons, and chain one of them up to the jetty for a couple of hours.
What the dinks didn't understand was that whinging is what we do in the UK and very good at it we are.

cynicism · 04-04-06 01:27:23

Elfman wrote:

cynicism wrote:
.......whichsuggests: "who called the pommy bastards cricket players?"
We pomms did when we won the Ashes last year. [snip]
Elfman.

Ah, you just got lucky. Er, a lot...

#1 27-03-06 18:48:37

Is 'Pommy Bastard' racist?

#2 27-03-06 23:29:03

Re: Is 'Pommy Bastard' racist?

#3 28-03-06 00:07:58

Re: Is 'Pommy Bastard' racist?

#4 28-03-06 00:16:42

Re: Is 'Pommy Bastard' racist?

#5 03-04-06 23:16:20

Re: Is 'Pommy Bastard' racist?

#6 04-04-06 01:27:23

Re: Is 'Pommy Bastard' racist?

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